Game Design/Theme Ideas

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Game Design/Theme Ideas

Post by Tooleman on Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:53 pm

I've been kicking around an idea for a game for about 10 years or so now. I've gone back and forth between two names: Kings and Pawns or City States. My favorite is Kings and Pawns.

The game takes place in the medieval time period and on an island with one central city and the rest of the cities along the coast. Mainly because the biggest pet peeve of my game is the number of clicks needed to move from location to location. Here everything would be easily accessible by one click.

The central city is the hub of the island where there are forests, fields, mines, etc for resource gathering. Each coastal city would be able to be claimed by a kingdom (equivalent of faction/guild/etc) and only those members would be able to work there. Nodes would operate similarly as in Drakor with a set amount of resources to be gathered before they need to respawn.

Kingdoms would gain levels from the work their citizens do. They would also have special advantages based on the type of kingdom (magician (longer spells), elf (reduced logging times), dwarve (reduced mining times), warrior (reduced recruiting times), nomad (reduced gathering times), etc). This would be a one time selection for free, then would need donator tokens to change in the future. For each 10 levels of kingdom experience, they can open another node with lower times than general population ones or add one alliance.

There would be 10 levels of mastery, level 1 would require 100 successful actions, level 2 1,000 and so on. With each level of mastery, you gain a greater chance of harvesting/producing more than one item per action. But you only gain xp for 1 action. So a level 10 player would maybe need 100 actions to clear a node where a newer player would maybe need 200 actions.

Now for the fun stuff, invasions. Each kingdom would work together to equip an army to invade another kingdom. There would be different levels of soldiers which would need complete sets of armor, wages and food equaling to the hp of that soldiers class. So an army of 5000 level one soldiers would need need 5000 sets of bronze armor (head, chest, arms, hands, legs, shield, sword) 5000 x 5 gp and 5000 x 10 hps worth of food. Recruiting soldiers would the be afk style of combat (modeled after pirates in syrnia).

When the army is ready for launch, they are directed to either another kingdom or the central city. Invasions to the central city would have more lucrative rewards but less chance of success since all people could take part in clearing them. Invasions to kingdoms can only be cleared by that kingdom's members or it's allies. The invasion must be cleared within a certain time frame or tribute must be paid. I'd love for the tribute to come from the losing kingdom but also realize that would be a source of constant whining and bitching. So maybe it would be game generated like you laid siege to Kingdom A for 2 hours, you have your choice of x amount of ore, y amount of wood or z amount of food resource.

Kingdom hopping would have to be prevented so if you leave your kingdom, you have a 48 hour waiting period to join another kingdom to keep people from ruining invasions. The invasion would be the non-afk combat with greater xp and the chance at drops from the armor, food or wages.

That's the basic premise. All nodes would level up like guild settlement nodes do currently. I don't have a great answer to solving the problem of older players having advantage over newer players. Maybe all actions give the same amount of xp but the amount needed to level up increases exponentially. And if mastery means fewer actions needed to clear a node, then the newer player would have an opportunity to close the gap more. I'm not a big fan of the reincarnation theory personally.


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Re: Game Design/Theme Ideas

Post by Jaize_ on Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:33 pm

Tooleman wrote:I've been kicking around an idea for a game for about 10 years or so now. I've gone back and forth between two names: Kings and Pawns or City States. My favorite is Kings and Pawns.

Not sure people want to consider themselves pawns if they are playing casually.  City States is a cool name especially considering the concept, but the web address might already be taken.  Something based on cities and kingdoms or something like that could work.  

Tooleman wrote:The game takes place in the medieval time period and on an island with one central city and the rest of the cities along the coast. Mainly because the biggest pet peeve of my game is the number of clicks needed to move from location to location. Here everything would be easily accessible by one click.

So true.  I constantly ask myself why I have to click so much instead of saying 'go to Drimly' or whatever.

Tooleman wrote:The central city is the hub of the island where there are forests, fields, mines, etc for resource gathering. Each coastal city would be able to be claimed by a kingdom (equivalent of faction/guild/etc) and only those members would be able to work there. Nodes would operate similarly as in Drakor with a set amount of resources to be gathered before they need to respawn.

Overall I like this concept of central area where people could mostly work peacefully and outer cities with potential for warfare, but would need to consider details on how many coastal cities there would be, how would a kingdom claim a city, would there be enough nodes in the central city for most of the game's population to use, do cities remain with a kingdom permanently, and so on.  That seems like a challenge to balance for a player base that will ebb and flow over time.  

Tooleman wrote:Kingdoms would gain levels from the work their citizens do. They would also have special advantages based on the type of kingdom (magician (longer spells), elf (reduced logging times), dwarve (reduced mining times), warrior (reduced recruiting times), nomad (reduced gathering times), etc). This would be a one time selection for free, then would need donator tokens  to change in the future. For each 10 levels of kingdom experience, they can open another node with lower times than general population ones or add one alliance.

Seems like a cool idea.

Tooleman wrote:There would be 10 levels of mastery, level 1 would require 100 successful actions, level 2 1,000 and so on. With each level of mastery, you gain a greater chance of harvesting/producing more than one item per action. But you only gain xp for 1 action. So a level 10 player would maybe need 100 actions to clear a node where a newer player would maybe need 200 actions.
  Downside of that is you have to pay a lot more attention if you're clearing nodes twice as quickly/  

Tooleman wrote:Now for the fun stuff, invasions. Each kingdom would work together to equip an army to invade another kingdom. There would be different levels of soldiers which would need complete sets of armor, wages and food equaling to the hp of that soldiers class. So an army of 5000 level one soldiers would need need 5000 sets of bronze armor (head, chest, arms, hands, legs, shield, sword) 5000 x 5 gp and 5000 x 10 hps worth of food. Recruiting soldiers would the be afk style of combat (modeled after pirates in syrnia).

When the army is ready for launch, they are directed to either another kingdom or the central city. Invasions to the central city would have more lucrative rewards but less chance of success since all people could take part in clearing them. Invasions to kingdoms can only be cleared by that kingdom's members or it's allies. The invasion must be cleared within a certain time frame or tribute must be paid. I'd love for the tribute to come from the losing kingdom but also realize that would be a source of constant whining and bitching. So maybe it would be game generated like you laid siege to Kingdom A for 2 hours, you have your choice of x amount of ore, y amount of wood or z amount of food resource.

What I like about this concept is it gives purpose to building 300 chest armors, 300 leg armors, etc....  unlike in Drakor where you're just vendoring almost everything you create.  Here you could have an option of having higher quality soldiers using better (rare+) equipment or just sending in high amounts of poorly equipped people.  The main concern I'd have is trying to work out a fair formula that would work for tribute considering the drastic differences there could be between invader / invadee and having a tribute that would make it potentially worthwhile to launch these invasions (and fun enough that a kingdom wouldn't be annoyed at having to constantly have to defend themselves).  I actually remember discussing your game with you previously and had some suggestions for an alchemy system that would work with what you were thinking (can't recall if it was PM at FOFC or if I posted them straight to the forum).  


Tooleman wrote:Kingdom hopping would have to be prevented so if you leave your kingdom, you have a 48 hour waiting period to join another kingdom to keep people from ruining invasions. The invasion would be the non-afk combat with greater xp and the chance at drops from the armor, food or wages.

That's the basic premise. All nodes would level up like guild settlement nodes do currently. I don't have a great answer to solving the problem of older players having advantage over newer players. Maybe all actions give the same amount of xp but the amount needed to level up increases exponentially. And if mastery means fewer actions needed to clear a node, then the newer player would have an opportunity to close the gap more. I'm not a big fan of the reincarnation theory personally.

Not sure I would go with the bolded, unless there would be some other idea for tools / rings than the Drakor system (which wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea as it's a non-intuitive system for people to understand).

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Re: Game Design/Theme Ideas

Post by Bl00D4NGEL on Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:07 pm

Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:I've been kicking around an idea for a game for about 10 years or so now. I've gone back and forth between two names: Kings and Pawns or City States. My favorite is Kings and Pawns.

Not sure people want to consider themselves pawns if they are playing casually.  City States is a cool name especially considering the concept, but the web address might already be taken.  Something based on cities and kingdoms or something like that could work.  
The domain for this is free so I could make it like citystates.com or something (This really sounds like some boring as browser game url though so I might need to re-think that)


Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:The game takes place in the medieval time period and on an island with one central city and the rest of the cities along the coast. Mainly because the biggest pet peeve of my game is the number of clicks needed to move from location to location. Here everything would be easily accessible by one click.

So true.  I constantly ask myself why I have to click so much instead of saying 'go to Drimly' or whatever.
I agree 100%. 101% even. Though I will probably make the timers  here a little "higher". So for example to travel from the central city to kingdom abc you need to travel 1-5 minutes (If I ever implement a weather system, this could influence the time) or something along the lines.
Maybe even implement something like mounts so you can travel from A to B just a little faster (Donator option? I don't know, seems too much "pay2win" right now)

Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:The central city is the hub of the island where there are forests, fields, mines, etc for resource gathering. Each coastal city would be able to be claimed by a kingdom (equivalent of faction/guild/etc) and only those members would be able to work there. Nodes would operate similarly as in Drakor with a set amount of resources to be gathered before they need to respawn.

Overall I like this concept of central area where people could mostly work peacefully and outer cities with potential for warfare, but would need to consider details on how many coastal cities there would be, how would a kingdom claim a city, would there be enough nodes in the central city for most of the game's population to use, do cities remain with a kingdom permanently, and so on.  That seems like a challenge to balance for a player base that will ebb and flow over time.  
Again I agree here. Especially for beginners or solo people it's a good thing to not be involved into the "outer action" when they play. If they want to kill everything, they will need to enter the wide world outside of the city walls.

One thing I will need to keep in mind here that I need to make "the outer lands" interesting enough for people to want to explore it. If I make it trivial, there'll be no reason to risk anything when they could just do their stuff inside central city.
Something along the lines of extra / exclusive materials from different areas would bait players outside.
Let alone that guilds / clans whatever should make "the outer lands" interesting enough to explore.


Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:Kingdoms would gain levels from the work their citizens do. They would also have special advantages based on the type of kingdom (magician (longer spells), elf (reduced logging times), dwarve (reduced mining times), warrior (reduced recruiting times), nomad (reduced gathering times), etc). This would be a one time selection for free, then would need donator tokens  to change in the future. For each 10 levels of kingdom experience, they can open another node with lower times than general population ones or add one alliance.

Seems like a cool idea.

This is the part where classes / skill trees and all that come together into one big picture.
Kingdom levels would get gradually harder to get but not impossible so there's still a reason to try and get that up.
I personally wouldn't go for the new node expansion but rather give the possibility to upgrade the existing nodes to give extra / new (specific) material from those nodes or lower respawn times.
This would perhaps ultimaterly lead to forced alliances (e.g. only elves are able to get a specific material from an upgraded node and so on, you probably the the gist).


Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:There would be 10 levels of mastery, level 1 would require 100 successful actions, level 2 1,000 and so on. With each level of mastery, you gain a greater chance of harvesting/producing more than one item per action. But you only gain xp for 1 action. So a level 10 player would maybe need 100 actions to clear a node where a newer player would maybe need 200 actions.
  Downside of that is you have to pay a lot more attention if you're clearing nodes twice as quickly/  
The mastery system is great.
Regarding the downside: Maybe the player could be able to choose between two "modes":
1. Clear the node as fast as possible, being able to get materials from 2-x attempts in one attempt but only gaining exp for that one attempt (Original idea)
and 2. Clear the node at "normal" speed but get a little extra exp (maybe like Mastery * 2 % or something) for every action you do. Depending on how I will implement the level system itself this might need re-thought.

Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:Now for the fun stuff, invasions. Each kingdom would work together to equip an army to invade another kingdom. There would be different levels of soldiers which would need complete sets of armor, wages and food equaling to the hp of that soldiers class. So an army of 5000 level one soldiers would need need 5000 sets of bronze armor (head, chest, arms, hands, legs, shield, sword) 5000 x 5 gp and 5000 x 10 hps worth of food. Recruiting soldiers would the be afk style of combat (modeled after pirates in syrnia).

When the army is ready for launch, they are directed to either another kingdom or the central city. Invasions to the central city would have more lucrative rewards but less chance of success since all people could take part in clearing them. Invasions to kingdoms can only be cleared by that kingdom's members or it's allies. The invasion must be cleared within a certain time frame or tribute must be paid. I'd love for the tribute to come from the losing kingdom but also realize that would be a source of constant whining and bitching. So maybe it would be game generated like you laid siege to Kingdom A for 2 hours, you have your choice of x amount of ore, y amount of wood or z amount of food resource.

What I like about this concept is it gives purpose to building 300 chest armors, 300 leg armors, etc....  unlike in Drakor where you're just vendoring almost everything you create.  Here you could have an option of having higher quality soldiers using better (rare+) equipment or just sending in high amounts of poorly equipped people.  The main concern I'd have is trying to work out a fair formula that would work for tribute considering the drastic differences there could be between invader / invadee and having a tribute that would make it potentially worthwhile to launch these invasions (and fun enough that a kingdom wouldn't be annoyed at having to constantly have to defend themselves).  I actually remember discussing your game with you previously and had some suggestions for an alchemy system that would work with what you were thinking (can't recall if it was PM at FOFC or if I posted them straight to the forum).  
The tribute could be a mixture from both, the system and the losing guild.
If people don't want to lose their materials then don't join a guild. Guilds will generally have a "grace period" in which they cannot be attacked again (To negotiate the factor of "farming" a guild to a point where they can't ever re-grow their forces)

I'd love to hear more detailed elobaration about the alchemy system that was discussed as I can not really imagine what might be behind that. Sad

Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:Kingdom hopping would have to be prevented so if you leave your kingdom, you have a 48 hour waiting period to join another kingdom to keep people from ruining invasions. The invasion would be the non-afk combat with greater xp and the chance at drops from the armor, food or wages.

That's the basic premise. All nodes would level up like guild settlement nodes do currently. I don't have a great answer to solving the problem of older players having advantage over newer players. Maybe all actions give the same amount of xp but the amount needed to level up increases exponentially. And if mastery means fewer actions needed to clear a node, then the newer player would have an opportunity to close the gap more. I'm not a big fan of the reincarnation theory personally.

Not sure I would go with the bolded, unless there would be some other idea for tools / rings than the Drakor system (which wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea as it's a non-intuitive system for people to understand).

Yeah guild / kingdom hopping should be prevented.
Shakes and Fidget does a decent job here as new guild members are not allowed to participate in ongoing guild wars and are restricted to fight in fights started within the next 24 hours. So people could be able to guild-hop but they wouldn't be able to help defend / attack.

Currently can't think of a balanced system to reward "veterans" but not too much so new players can't "catch up" to them.

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Re: Game Design/Theme Ideas

Post by Tooleman on Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:07 pm


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Re: Game Design/Theme Ideas

Post by Jaize_ on Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Bl00D4NGEL wrote:
One thing I will need to keep in mind here that I need to make "the outer lands" interesting enough for people to want to explore it. If I make it trivial, there'll be no reason to risk anything when they could just do their stuff inside central city.
Something along the lines of extra / exclusive materials from different areas would bait players outside.
Let alone that guilds / clans whatever should make "the outer lands" interesting enough to explore.

Also have to consider if you want people able to make exploity single-player guilds like in Drakor where they get the benefits of private nodes / extra inventory space.  Of course if they can get raided and lose tribute that may be enough deterrent.  On the other hand, one thing Drakor does well is good content for single-player people that keeps them interested and keeps world chat active (even if not with the best content).  You'll never get rid of solo players and there's not really any reason to as it would diminish your player base, even if your content may be more geared towards guilds.  Some of the benefit of working the outside spots would be less crowding (slower node depletion?) and potentially the option to improve the nodes further beyond what the central city could.  

Bl00D4NGEL wrote:
Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:Kingdoms would gain levels from the work their citizens do. They would also have special advantages based on the type of kingdom (magician (longer spells), elf (reduced logging times), dwarve (reduced mining times), warrior (reduced recruiting times), nomad (reduced gathering times), etc). This would be a one time selection for free, then would need donator tokens  to change in the future. For each 10 levels of kingdom experience, they can open another node with lower times than general population ones or add one alliance.

Seems like a cool idea.

This is the part where classes / skill trees and all that come together into one big picture.
Kingdom levels would get gradually harder to get but not impossible so there's still a reason to try and get that up.
I personally wouldn't go for the new node expansion but rather give the possibility to upgrade the existing nodes to give extra / new (specific) material from those nodes or lower respawn times.
This would perhaps ultimately lead to forced alliances (e.g. only elves are able to get a specific material from an upgraded node and so on, you probably the the gist).

I just thought of a cool idea too...the idea of allowing some other players to use your guild's private nodes while letting the guild set a 'tax rate', so that when you stop working there, (some % set by the guild) of what you earn goes into their storehouse.  This way maybe as a dwarf you could access an 'elf-only' node at another kingdom that gives their kingdom's special material or something like that, plus allows solo / lower level players access to some potentially more interesting nodes if they're willing to pay.  Just gives more options and decisions to make for players.  

Also, maybe successful kingdom attacks / defends yield some kingdom experience towards leveling?  

But as you said, class / race trees could fit very well in this system.  Some advantages towards gathering, some towards solo combat, some towards guild combat...there could be a lot of different ways players could develop their characters.  

Bl00D4NGEL wrote:
Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:There would be 10 levels of mastery, level 1 would require 100 successful actions, level 2 1,000 and so on. With each level of mastery, you gain a greater chance of harvesting/producing more than one item per action. But you only gain xp for 1 action. So a level 10 player would maybe need 100 actions to clear a node where a newer player would maybe need 200 actions.
  Downside of that is you have to pay a lot more attention if you're clearing nodes twice as quickly/  
The mastery system is great.
Regarding the downside: Maybe the player could be able to choose between two "modes":
1. Clear the node as fast as possible, being able to get materials from 2-x attempts in one attempt but only gaining exp for that one attempt (Original idea)
and 2. Clear the node at "normal" speed but get a little extra exp (maybe like Mastery * 2 % or something) for every action you do. Depending on how I will implement the level system itself this might need re-thought.

The simplest way would just be to have it not impact the speed to clear a node but have a chance to give extra materials each action (like in Drakor).  But you could set up different mastery levels to have different impacts (Mastery 6 - 5% higher rarity chance, Mastery 7 - 4% chance for double xp, Mastery 8 - -2 TR, etc...)  That might be if we're talking mastery for skills rather than materials / patterns.  

Also, this is kind of random but I just thought of it as a weird idea...if you get the last 'drop' from a node, how about if you get a bonus (equivalent to 5-10 extra 'actions')?  The idea of giving people incentive to clear out nodes and having a little competition when nodes get closer to completion that might draw extra players to try to get the bonus drops.

Bl00D4NGEL wrote:
Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:Now for the fun stuff, invasions. Each kingdom would work together to equip an army to invade another kingdom. There would be different levels of soldiers which would need complete sets of armor, wages and food equaling to the hp of that soldiers class. So an army of 5000 level one soldiers would need need 5000 sets of bronze armor (head, chest, arms, hands, legs, shield, sword) 5000 x 5 gp and 5000 x 10 hps worth of food. Recruiting soldiers would the be afk style of combat (modeled after pirates in syrnia).

When the army is ready for launch, they are directed to either another kingdom or the central city. Invasions to the central city would have more lucrative rewards but less chance of success since all people could take part in clearing them. Invasions to kingdoms can only be cleared by that kingdom's members or it's allies. The invasion must be cleared within a certain time frame or tribute must be paid. I'd love for the tribute to come from the losing kingdom but also realize that would be a source of constant whining and bitching. So maybe it would be game generated like you laid siege to Kingdom A for 2 hours, you have your choice of x amount of ore, y amount of wood or z amount of food resource.

What I like about this concept is it gives purpose to building 300 chest armors, 300 leg armors, etc....  unlike in Drakor where you're just vendoring almost everything you create.  Here you could have an option of having higher quality soldiers using better (rare+) equipment or just sending in high amounts of poorly equipped people.  The main concern I'd have is trying to work out a fair formula that would work for tribute considering the drastic differences there could be between invader / invadee and having a tribute that would make it potentially worthwhile to launch these invasions (and fun enough that a kingdom wouldn't be annoyed at having to constantly have to defend themselves).  I actually remember discussing your game with you previously and had some suggestions for an alchemy system that would work with what you were thinking (can't recall if it was PM at FOFC or if I posted them straight to the forum).  
The tribute could be a mixture from both, the system and the losing guild.
If people don't want to lose their materials then don't join a guild. Guilds will generally have a "grace period" in which they cannot be attacked again (To negotiate the factor of "farming" a guild to a point where they can't ever re-grow their forces
)

I'd love to hear more detailed elaboration about the alchemy system that was discussed as I can not really imagine what might be behind that. Sad

\o/ for the bolded section.  Don't want people to get too discouraged.  On the other hand, that could be ripe for exploit too (people exchanging friendly attacks on each other to prevent real attacks, so something to consider down the line).  

Trying to go from memory, I think the alchemy idea was that you could use different potions to bolster your army's chances of victory.  So something like bravery (+5 attack), sleeping potion (eliminate some defenders, I believe we had the idea that you could hire some small 'house guard' to help defend against attacks or maybe build some kind of defenses), alchemical fire (add fire damage to weapons), stuff like that.  To balance it out material-wise you could make it so a potion works on 50 soldiers so you'd need 100 for the whole group or whatever.  

I also forgot this idea for hiring a wizard for your army (from the forum link Toole provided):  

"Just thought I'd throw out the idea of being able to hire a wizard for your army. It would be expensive, perhaps requiring a high leadership or combat to attract him/her to work with you, and the wizard would demand to work alone (only one wizard per army). If you like the idea, you could go a number of different ways with it (wizard requires additional 'random' training to learn different spells to be used during an attack, perhaps increases troop morale just by the wizard's presence, could assist or be required to make certain potions, ...)"  Lots of ways you could use that to customize an attack a little more, but wouldn't necessarily fit in with the skill system unless you're paying them with spellbooks you make with inscription or something (or scribing the spells they'll use on scrolls?)

Bl00D4NGEL wrote:
Jaize_ wrote:
Tooleman wrote:Kingdom hopping would have to be prevented so if you leave your kingdom, you have a 48 hour waiting period to join another kingdom to keep people from ruining invasions. The invasion would be the non-afk combat with greater xp and the chance at drops from the armor, food or wages.

That's the basic premise. All nodes would level up like guild settlement nodes do currently. I don't have a great answer to solving the problem of older players having advantage over newer players. Maybe all actions give the same amount of xp but the amount needed to level up increases exponentially. And if mastery means fewer actions needed to clear a node, then the newer player would have an opportunity to close the gap more. I'm not a big fan of the reincarnation theory personally.

Not sure I would go with the bolded, unless there would be some other idea for tools / rings than the Drakor system (which wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea as it's a non-intuitive system for people to understand).

Yeah guild / kingdom hopping should be prevented.
Shakes and Fidget does a decent job here as new guild members are not allowed to participate in ongoing guild wars and are restricted to fight in fights started within the next 24 hours. So people could be able to guild-hop but they wouldn't be able to help defend / attack.

Currently can't think of a balanced system to reward "veterans" but not too much so new players can't "catch up" to them.

Some things that I think could help newcomers:
1. Level caps (at some point you don't gain, but they catch up to you)
2. Higher levels slow down growth (at some point kingdoms are more difficult to level, so they can catch up in that way)
3. Tools / rings / estates / etc.... those kinds of things help out because at first they're difficult / expensive to build / make, but as time goes on, the materials for the lower level stuff are cheaper so players can use them to catch up more quickly than the initial players did).  
4. Opportunity to use more developed nodes than older players did when they started: If they're willing to pay guilds to use their more developed nodes (or join an appropriate guild), they can level faster than on the slower nodes as the older players did.[/quote]

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